Washington Wizards 97, Charlotte Bobcats 83: Tough 3rd Quarter Sinks Bobcats « Queen City Hoops

Washington Wizards 97, Charlotte Bobcats 83: Tough 3rd Quarter Sinks Bobcats

Washington Wizards 97 FinalRecap | Box Score 83 Charlotte Bobcats
Josh McRoberts, PF 26 MIN | 1-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 2 PTS | -8

McRoberts is in the middle of a really rough stretch: Over the past 10 days, he’s averaging six points on 33 percent shooting. His passing gives him value beyond his scoring, which is nearly always low, but he still needs to hit a baseline or he really starts hurting the team.

Al Jefferson, C 35 MIN | 3-9 FG | 0-0 FT | 10 REB | 4 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 6 PTS | -16

A quiet night from Al when they really could have used more. The assists were a bonus, but too many of his shots came from outside. That was a trend in general tonight, with the team settling for more mid-range jumpers than attempts at the rim.

Kemba Walker, PG 39 MIN | 7-17 FG | 3-6 FT | 3 REB | 8 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 5 TO | 19 PTS | -15

Kemba ended up with a decent night, but a good chunk of that came in garbage time. He flatlined in the third quarter, going 2-for-7 and turning the ball over three times as the Wizards pushed their lead to 19.

Chris Douglas-Roberts, SG 30 MIN | 2-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 6 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 6 PTS | -13

The three-point shooting has been nice so far, but Doulgas-Roberts is mostly anonymous. The team’s just treading water until Michael Kidd-Gilchrist comes back next week.

Gerald Henderson, SG 35 MIN | 10-19 FG | 6-8 FT | 7 REB | 1 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 27 PTS | -19

Henderson’s reliance on the two-point jumper means he’s a boom or bust type player — but when his shot is falling, you get nights like this. His 27 points were a season high, and was pretty much the lone bright spot for the Bobcats.

Anthony Tolliver, PF 21 MIN | 2-5 FG | 3-4 FT | 5 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 8 PTS | +6

Pure vanilla from Tolliver. Solid night, but nothing spectacular.

Cody Zeller, C 11 MIN | 2-5 FG | 1-2 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 5 PTS | -12

Cody Zeller Jumper Watch 2014: Cody went 2-for-4 outside the paint tonight, bringing his mid-range shooting on the year to 26.8 percent. He’s taken almost as many shots there (82) as he has in the restricted area (95), so his value will be limited until he can start hitting those. He’s at least made some strides, hitting 32.6 percent over the last 18 games after making 21 percent in his first 18.

Bismack Biyombo, C 13 MIN | 0-1 FG | 0-2 FT | 3 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 1 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | +2

No one’s expecting too much offense from Biyombo, but an 0fer and a missed point-blank dunk is on the low end of his spectrum.

Ramon Sessions, PG 30 MIN | 4-8 FG | 2-2 FT | 0 REB | 3 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 4 TO | 10 PTS | +5

Sessions got a fair amount of burn tonight, playing next to Kemba down the stretch. Like Tolliver, a solid enough night off the bench.

One Thing We Saw

  1. Nothing really went Charlotte’s way tonight, especially on the offensive boards (8 to 3) and turnovers (13 to 7). They also left too many points at the line, going 15-of-24 on free throws.

28 comments to Washington Wizards 97, Charlotte Bobcats 83: Tough 3rd Quarter Sinks Bobcats

  • Spencer/SDS

    completely unrelated with anything bobcats, but this is my basketball relief forum at times and I just read about Phil Jackson talking about Wilt saying: As a rookie he (Phil) blocked one of Wilt’s shots in a game, in response (wilt told him during every game) wilt blocked EVERY single shot for the next 5 games that Phil attempted…lol just my god, I wish he were in the NBA today, would be amazing to watch him dominate everyone like their 10 yr olds.

  • that guy

    First time posting ever and admitting that I’m a fan of this team, city and franchise (since it formed and I became a fan of NBA basketball).

    Can we all admit that not making the playoffs and winning one of those top three lottery picks would make this an ideal season?

    *** just going to rant a bit ***

    Biyombo is solid but so overratted by the faithful fans. He is/ can be a solid rotational player off your bench; brings defensive intensity but that is about it.

    Henderson, was paid properly by this franchise. Inconsistent jumper and my three point shot might just be be more reliable.

    Sessions, is what he is and does what he does… without him the last couple season, this team would’ve had higher picks in the draft.

    MKG… easily our best option at SF for the remainder of the year. I know the hustle and effort is there; in fact, it is impressive. Add to that his age and I understand why people have faith/ hope for his career. That jump shot is so very, very flawed. The effort, speed and everything that makes him great/ exciting will also keep him injured too often. Impressive when he is on the court but Lillard (in hind site) would’ve been a MUCH better long term pick.

    What else to say… I’ve never “made” a team, 6 ft tall PF from Iowa… what do I know… enough, friends and fellow fans… I know enough.

    Kemba should make an all star team, this year. Also, really bummed about J. Taylor’s injury… I believe he could have had a more consistent career in the league than MKG.

    unrelated note… Wilt was a more freakish athlete than #23 in Miami… just saying… read up on what he (at his size) did in track and field events.

  • charlottean

    i don’t think biz is inflated for what he could be, i just think he’s underdeveloped. you said it best…….the best thing we could do is lose. and the 2nd best thing we could do is play biz and cody A LOT and play to THEIR strengths, not al or josh mcroberts. let them figure it out.

    biz does NOT have the potential to be a 20 ppg guy. but he absolutely has the potential to lead the league in rebounding AND shot blocking AND FG%. that’s not inflated at all. the skill set is there, it’s a matter of minutes and scheme and coaching from there. and you can win A LOT with a guy like that, look at noah, look at ben wallace, look at tyson chandler, look at all the chicago centers, dennis rodman, etc. etc. the guy is a winner. he’s a passionate player who actually wants to get better. and has the natural size and athleticism. the type of player he is wins way more games than the type of player jefferson is (at the center spot).

    MKG’s jumper is flawed in the sense of traditional method, but it is effective. he was making it with SOLID regularity before the injury. if that’s sustainable, who gives an eff about a hitch. most of his offense will come in transition, post up, and slashing. the jumper is just to keep defenses honest.

    taylor – i think this one was inflated. he’s the guy that can dominate summer league, pro-am, international exhibitions, but better than MKG? he doesn’t have the size or skill handling the ball and finishing at the rim that MKG does. the only thing he does better is shooting and his shooting hasn’t been proven to be efficient at the nba level yet.

    the big thing about all these guys + kemba + hendo + zeller is that they are all gamers. they all go hard. they all are unselfish and play together. that’s why they were 5-4 without jefferson at the beginning of the year. if they just rode that wave to a 25 win season, added in an elite scorer/playmaker, and let the guys grow up, we could have had something. instead we’re headed to mediocrity. and we’re getting screwed on the detroit pick. there will be like 4 teams out west that are in the lottery with better records than detroit (if things continue) and instead of detroit’s pick being around 9-10, it’ll be closer to 20. they could be a 5 or 6 seed when atlanta, us, and chicago all start falling and that would leave their pick around 17-19.

    this year is going the worst way possible other than the recent losing streak pushing us back towards keeping our pick.

  • Spencer/SDS

    Taylor NEEDED a healthy year and off-season, a lot of these guys that go ham in summer league (1st time round) generally don’t play that well in the regular season, but the yr after seem to show that summer league talent they flashed…he has the potential, just needed a yr to get it from minor pros to big league pros…that is likely to be delayed a yr (has the athleticism and tools to be dominate at the pro level)

    Biyombo’s stats are very good, RPG48 is at 15.8, 11th in the league and 2.89 bpg per 48 min, 11th in the league once again. He’s a good (YOUNG) rim protector that is only getting better at it, offensively he had developed a nice little jumper around the key (doesn’t use it often due to clifford anymore) and has improved immensely on the block, TY Jefferson and Ewing for helping him there (also doesn’t get many if any touches there due to clifford.

    MKG needs to develop his post game/utilize it more (may be clifford preventing that) and is a nice driving presence on the court (sadly all we have are guys that can either drive to the basket, or shoot a mid range jump shot, with that odd ball post up big man, making that skill set of his on the back burner due to Kemba, Sessions and Hendo all apparently being preferred at driving to the basket then MKG).

    As for Wilt, iv’e more then likely annoyed the hell out of the few readers/commentators on this blog with talking about him lol. 45-50 in vert, at 7 ft 2, 275-320 lbs, could bench 500+, had speed…dude was LeBron at 7 ft 2, and wasn’t just a track star, but a marathon runner, dude’s endurance/stamina was crazy, let alone adding on his pure athleticism with that height…he’s my dream franchise player if there ever was one…sadly those guys seem to only come once every 100 years:(

  • charlottean

    david thompson was sick too though. not a lot of 6-4 guys grabbing the top of the backboard like it’s cake.

  • Spencer/SDS

    no, not many at all, just as few 7 footers as well, considering most don’t know the meaning of having a vert ^_^, let alone a good one…random but one of the best dunkers/best jumper (highest vertical) guy in the world is currently Haneef Munir, reported 55″ vert which is just insane,only 5 ft 10:(…my favorite dunk iv’e seen him do is a normal in between the legs dunk, but over Blake Griffin…with Griffin holding the ball over his head, probably wouldn’t even make it in the d-league but damn, that type of athleticism is crazy.

  • Dave Walshy

    Now we are apparently shopping Gordon to try to get someone to help us make the post season this year… This teams management astonishes me. Before this season I was kind of starting to have faith due to Cho but this is so absurd. Trying to make a move that accomplishes nothing except making us lose a potential top ten pick in a stacked draft class and get a one time chance to sneak into the playoffs and get swept… I don’t know how the management could look at this roster and think we don’t need that pick and should be in win now mode. Even if we sneak in this year I wouldn’t even be confident this team will be in the playoff mix in future years because the other teams will likely improve more (without our pick and barring any big free agent signings). They made this fanbase endure some of the most painful tanking ever just to give up on the effort a year early seemingly just to get people off our backs for tanking and leave the fans with a perpetual 30-40 win team and likely another rebuilding effort in a few years…

    It astonishes me how much people dismiss Wilt. He without a doubt deserves to be in the GOAT discussion with Jordan. Some of his physical attributes do get exaggerated. There is no way his vertical was anywhere near 50 inches (just think about that for a second) and the bench pressing 500 pounds wasn’t until later in his career when he had put on weight and lost a lot of his athleticism. However, in his prime he truly was a freak athlete on a level we’ve never seen. He would have been listed at 7’2″ – 7’3″ and had Dwight Howard level athleticism but with more speed and agility, more strength, and possibly a little more lift. Not to mention more skill and way more length and legendary stamina. It was just insane. Anyone who is skeptical or just a fan should watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4WZXiaDzyc#t=0

  • Dave Walshy

    The only reason we have a chance at the playoffs this year is because virtually the entire eastern conference is tanking. We are overplaying veterans and under developing our young guys and clearly trying to win now and we still are barely hanging onto a playoff spot despite being one of the only teams that is actually trying. Either this front office is epically inept or they don’t care about the future of this franchise and are just trying to make some extra money of a couple home playoff games and the buzz from the transition back to the Hornets.

  • NCTony

    I’m not sure what you guys are looking at. I’ve been a season tix holder since day 1 sit 5 rows behind bench . Went to every game including our famous 7 win season.

    Biyombo – can’t catch the ball down low in close quarters. No improvement since year 1 there. Yes he gives effort, but guys won’t pass him the ball due to fact it’s a 50-50 ball with turnover looming. It’s not Clifford it’s Biyombo. Cut your losses now. Teams like Clippers can use a guy like him not this team as constructed.

    Zeller. while improving since game 1 – gets pushed around so badly some game it’s hard to watch. Cut your losses now with him too…

    McRoberts gives effort all time has no confidence in his shot.

    Too many non shooters to expect this team to be near 500.

    It was fun while it lasted. Clifford is right in saying the effort level has dramatically dropped off with this team, much like the prior two years only the effort level lasted a few weeks longer this year.

    Wizards game felt like 2012/2011 all over again .its starting to get hard to watch the games again

    Trade Ramon and Gordon if we can or ride it out for cap space. Al is a place holder for a couple of years.

    I’m a hugs Cats fan just being real about it.

  • charlottean

    Dave you’re saying all the things I’ve been crying out since summer. Glad to have another rational voice in the crowd of idiots thinking this team is any good because of Al Jefferson. I do have faith the basketball gods will keep us out of the playoffs regardless of how hard we try. We actually have a better chance of playoffs by playing kemba,hen do,mkg,Zeller,biz forty minutes a game and have sessions,Jefferson, mcroberts dominate against second team.for eight minutes. New York is going to improve slightly with chandler and felt on back sort of, and they only need a slight bump to pass us. Brooklyn is a half a game back now and streaking. Detroit isn’t built to tank and loses their pick to us if it’s outside 8 soI have zero faith they actually try to blow it up. A trade might make them better the way lopez’ injury did for Brooklyn.

    I just don’t see our chances of playoffs being good even if we make a move for it. It would take a move involving Jefferson and I don’t think they’re smart enough to do that.

    We have several trade assets in sessions, mcrobert gordon draft picks, Haywood, tolliver, pargo, aAdrien……all highly trade able without touching young core. We should absolutely be in play for a MAJOR move. But we should also be developing our young guys and playing to keep our pick. Using all the expiring for a salary dump and good picks or great young talent seems appropriate. Evan turner, gallinari, eric gordon , ilyasova, all come to mind as available. Gordon Hayward has to be for the right price as well.

  • Dave Walshy

    We aren’t saying Biz is great but he certainly has improved since day one. I’ve been watching. We aren’t really saying he is that good just that he is getting better at catching and can finish well when he catches it and he has proven to be a very good rebounder and rim protector and a solid defensive player in general. He is only 21 and still should improve it gets the opportunity. All of that is backed up by data. If he only improves a little he is still a solid rotation guy. Not starting Jefferson at this point is kind of unreasonable to ask even though it would help. They should definitely play McBob less and run the offense through him less when he is in and give the extra minutes to Biyombo and Zeller. I would be down for a trade if it brought a major piece or a young player that won’t play us out of our pick. This team is borderline decent with room to improve on the current roster but they aren’t going to get over the hump without this years pick unless they can pull of a big trade or signing a star, both of which seem unlikely. If they keep this years pick they are pretty much set with all our other picks and cap room as long as they play the offseason fairly smart. Who knows how this will play out though lol.

  • Dave Walshy

    Brooklyn, Detroit, New York, and Cleveland should all be able to pass us in the standings. Maybe not Cleveland but its certainly possible.

  • charlottean


    You’re talking about “cutting losses” on 2 21 year old big men. when historically, most big men don’t hit their stride until around 25. no, neither will be hall of famers, but both could be starters and leaders on a contending team.

    biyombo’s turnover rate IS still high for his usage rate. but that’s applicable for a lot of bigs who don’t get many touches. a lot of those turnovers come from offensive fouls (setting screens or banging in the paint), a wing turning a shot into a pass unexpectedly, and getting the ball swiped after grabbing an offensive rebound in traffic. if the guy was getting the ball on the block like jefferson does, that turnover rate would go DRASTICALLY down. that has everything to do with clifford.

    the facts with biyombo are this: he’s drastically improved his PPP (leads the team and i believe still top 5 in the league) and is converting damn near everything he puts up at the rim (again highest FG% on the team). mostly dunks, but a lot of hook shots and some short range jumpers. his rebounding is drastically improved. he’s getting to the line more. while 52% from the line IS a problem, that’s more than a point per possession which is better than most of our other players are bringing in. again, if he’s taking 8 free throws a game instead of less than 2, i expect to be able to get 60%+ out of him. he has a solid stroke from the line, it’s just inconsistent results wise. the difference between biyombo and hibbert offensively is more touches and more years. hibbert was converting a lower % in college at age 21 than biyombo is in the pros. biyombo could be a more athletic, shorter but long – better rebounding version of hibbert. if developed.

    zeller is getting the typical rookie treatment. where you say it’s a matter of strength, i would argue it’s a matter of getting calls and or knowing how to get calls. he does a lot of things you can’t teach and his defense has been surprisingly good for a rookie. The guy needs to get the ball in more positions than just at the high elbow (which is basically new to him).

    the picks keep getting made and keep getting blamed but they keep proving that the problem is what we’re doing with them. over and over and over we ruin guys’ careers. we aren’t picking guys that wouldn’t be picked. ajinca was graded a 1st round grade for a reason. he dominated the d-league for a reason. he had success with SIG for a reason. he’s back in the league starting for NO for a reason.

    augustin was a top 10 pick for a reason. the guy was 20 years old coming off 2 stellar seasons at texas. mcdonald’s all american. 1st team all american at texas. 2nd team all-rookie while he was COMING OFF THE BENCH BEHIND FELTON (another guy we failed to develop). there’s a reason why thibs loves this dude right now. there’s a reason why he’ll stick in chicago after this season.

    there’s a reason why felton, dudley, okafor have all had success elsewhere. same applies to the alan andersons, shannon brown’s, jason kapono’s, even throw a tyson chandler or boris diaw in there……..we tend to ruin talent as a franchise. the only person we can look to and say “his best years were here” was gerald wallace. and the only draft picks that didn’t find success elsewhere (morrison and may) have injury *’s next to that fact.

    we had the right coach to develop talent in dunlap and then we hired larry brown pt 2 in clifford. clifford can coach strategy but he can’t coach long term development and improvement. that’s been very clear. nobody is getting better. nobody will ever note how bad of a move that was for the franchise.

  • NCTony

    Personally I like both Biyombo and Zeller. They give effort. I would love to see them succeed.

    My son goes to Big 10 school and told me Zeller will get pushed around. He also told me we should have taken Beal over MKG. I get the concept of 3-5 years are needed to develop/Access NBA talent.

    This team needs real legit outside shooting talent now, if this squad wants to sniff the playoffs.

    If we are “tanking” then so be it. I just need to know what management is doing so I know how to react as a fan.

    I too was misled by the first 25 games, the effort was their. Since the Atlanta game, it looks like 2012 again.

    Gortat, out muscled Big Al and I’d expect same from Pecovic.

    When are we going to sign a shooter / scorer from wing?

  • charlottean

    that’s basically what we’re all saying about WTF is management doing? they aren’t succeeding at win-now and they aren’t succeeding at tanking. we’re in no-man’s land right now. it’s frustrating. we aren’t developing our young talent and we aren’t making any moves to bring in any other talent.

    strength is not the issue with zeller. dude outperformed most people at the combine. is he light weight for a 7 footer? slightly. he’s 21. he won’t fill out completely until 25. that 230 will become 240-245. but strength is not what’s causing him to get pushed around…….that’s the veteran’s getting the calls and the rookie’s getting the swallowed whistle. the guy just needs to start getting 35 mpg to start establishing himself and get some confidence. they’ve killed his confidence thus far. he needs the treatment kemba got last year from dunlap……give the guy the ball, the minutes and the kind of plays he needs to succeed and then you look up and he can play in any system (just about) after that. same applies to MKG. those 2 are elite talents. biyombo isn’t THAT, but he could absolutely be the starting 5 on a contender as a 10/13/3 type guy shooting 60% from the field. he’s giving us nearly 8/12/2 per 36 right now without being coached up properly.

    but yeah this is frustrating. and I could go on and on and on and on for days about it. it never stops. it never seems to get better and go the right direction. insanely frustrating being a charlottean and big time basketball nut.

  • Dave Walshy

    With Jefferson here it would be hard to find 35 minutes for guys like Biyombo and Zeller because we are kind of obligated to play him at this point. There is no reason they can’t get 20-25 mpg though. McBob could play less and Tolliver was regularly seeing 20 mpg even when he was playing mostly PF. He should barely be in the rotation when the team is healthy. He isn’t even productive when he plays which is why it is all the more frustrating.

  • Spencer/SDS

    It astonishes me how much people dismiss Wilt. He without a doubt deserves to be in the GOAT discussion with Jordan. Some of his physical attributes do get exaggerated. There is no way his vertical was anywhere near 50 inches (just think about that for a second) and the bench pressing 500 pounds wasn’t until later in his career when he had put on weight and lost a lot of his athleticism. However, in his prime he truly was a freak athlete on a level we’ve never seen. He would have been listed at 7’2″ – 7’3″ and had Dwight Howard level athleticism but with more speed and agility, more strength, and possibly a little more lift.

    Way more lift, Dwight isn’t a good jumper, in his highlight days in an dunk contest he tried to show off his vert, (only got to the top of square) with a sticky note, Wilt could get to the TOP of the backboard and his high school track and field jumps proved that he AT least had a 40 in vert, 40-45 isn’t debatable IMO…plus there are newpapers talking about the NBA specifically changing the free throw rule that you couldn’t dunk/jump past the free throw line for free throw attempts, the fact that they included dunks and not just finger rolls in the papers implies that Wilt was literally dunking the ball from the free throw line, that puts him EASILY in the 45-50 vert arena…now did he have 50 towards the end of even middle of his career??? I doubt it, once he got to 275 he probably dropped to a 40-45″ vert (still amazing). Dwight howard is the most overrated center in history, dude would get wrecked physically against Shaq, or Wilt, would get dominated just by the skill standpoint against Hakeem, Kareem, Ewing etc…he’s a B grade Shaq at best.

    Anyway as for the team, we need to hope Detroit (who isn’t tanking by any means) learns how to play…sadly Josh Smith and Jennings are both brick layers for home improvement, or Boston who is highly over paid to step it up…plus hope that Chicago with Thibodeau refuse to not make it to the playoffs…or maybe the Cavs with Deng turn the season around…there are a lot of bad teams in the east who are tanking, but even worse tanks who have no intentions on tanking this year who just suck even more so then Charlotte it seems…mostly due to coaching (damn you clifford)…

    as for range, look at Doug McDermott and pray that he comes to us next yr….Jefferson should only be playing 28-32 minutes a game, to big of a liability defensively even if we aren’t't tanking, unless he is moved to PF, I wouldn’t mind the whole trying to get to the playoffs if we actually played Biyombo and Zeller over McRoberts…but no, we would never do that

    side note: IF we trade Gordon please trade him for another 2 yr 10 mill contract that we turn into draft picks…other then that why do anything, he’s perfectly fine sitting on the bench doing nothing but eating popcorn.

  • Dave Walshy

    Stories of people touching the top of the backboard are probably largely mythological. There is no proof anyone has ever done it. If I was going to believe anyone did it would certainly be Wilt but I don’t put much stock into those claims. Dwight is a very good leaper for his size actually. I agree he is pretty overrated in a historical context because the center position is kind of a joke right now. Wilt’s high jump numbers in college (conference champ at Kansas!!) suggest 40″ is possible. I would say its likely in the 38-42 range. Vertical leaps tend to get exaggerated. If you just think about it you can see there is no way it was 50″. Think of how high Lebron gets on dunks and how sometimes it seems like he can get close to touching the top of the backboard when he goes up. Consider that he has a standing reach of 8’10″ and his vertical is 44″ I believe. Wilt’s standing reach was 9’6″ (without shoes) so imagine adding 6 inches in vertical leap and add 8-9 inches in reach to Lebron… Wilt would literally be getting close to touching the top of the backboard with his elbow. It’s just not likely possible. If you watch videos of Wilt in his prime (watch the amazing video I posted!) he gets really high but not that high. Not that it really matters. He was an absolute monster and may be the GOAT although he will never get the credit.

    I agree we shouldn’t trade Gordon unless its for picks or a young talent would be ok as well. Brooklyn and Washington are both on the rise and I feel like Detroit has too much talent to not eventually pass us. The more I think about the more I think we probably will miss out on the playoffs but who knows. The front office seems to really not want us to keep our pick this year…

  • Dave Walshy

    Can anyone explain to me some peoples infatuation with McRoberts. Clifford is clearly in love and half the time I read anything about this team on this site or any other people rave about how well he is playing and how good he is for this team. I think he is solid but let us be real. He is our starting PF playing legit starter minutes and he is averaging 8 points, 5 rebounds, and .5 blocks on 40% shooting…

  • Spencer/SDS

    my basis on him having a 50 in vert is due to the reports/newspapers talking about the NBA banning dunking from being a legal free throw attempt, even with that length he would need at least a 50″ probably, or the more likely finger role would still show an amazing vert.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF8yJ1J1W7Q 35 years old and look how high he gets, take off 12 years and 60 lbs, I believe he easily touched the backboard all day when he was young if he tried. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlB8X101kME , he could block that “unstoppable” sky hook for days, in his 30′s…no doubt he isn’t a shaq that got completely out of shape, dude was still on an Olympic level in nearly every athletic category in his 30′s, add on fresher legs, I wouldn’t doubt he was a giraffe that could get 50 ” off the ground.

    Humans are amazing athletes when they focus.

  • Spencer/SDS

    he’s this teams PG at PF, plain and simple, he makes the offense run out times…but that is due to Clifford’s love with him, he is a good backup in this league, nothing else…a VERY good backup, or a starter on a Spurs (Stacked) team where even thou he’s a starter he only should get 20-24 mins a game. As many people have said, he’s a far more likable version of Boris Diaw, with a worse defensive game but more athleticism…plus he cares about playing even if he’s on a bad team, Diaw just gave up/didn’t care his last year here.

  • charlottean

    That’s the big misconception. Diaw played harder, cared more, and was way more focused….he just has that Tim Duncan nonchalance about him that drove people here nuts who didn’t actually watch the games. diaw ran the floor harder, boxed out EVERY play no exceptions, made smart passes, etc. Mcroberts has the athleticism that diaw lostwhen he added weight but keep in mind diaw used that weight to guard 5′s.

    I don’t know about taking back contracts for goGordon….I’m on the fence. That would kill potential cap room this summer where we could make major offers on Evan turner, lance Stephenson, gGordon Hayward, or Greg monroe. I don’t think the chances are too realistic that would happen, and I don’t think that those guys are the answers to our prayers, but the flexibility outweighs a mid range pick in my mind.

    Now coupling jefferson and gordon and taking back a major salary like a boozer or amare along with some picks/young talent and simultaneously freeing up minutes for the young bigs…..that would be something i could see.

    I just don’t see how jefferson ever helps this team get better. and he def shouldn’t be playing more than 30 mpg while he is here. clifford said 30-32 at the beginning of the season and dude is steadily hitting 35+ the last few weeks. and we’re losing in the process.

    it’s such a bad situation from what should have been good. And we have so many trade chips…..if no trades get done, we wasted another major part of our rebuild plan (sessions contract, gordons contract, haywood, mcroberts, tolliver etc) next month or so is critical.

  • Spencer/SDS

    being 50 lbs overweight differs with everything you said, sure in game he cared, out of game??? he didn’t give 2 shits, or didn’t try, great natural talent that he wasted here in Charlotte due to laziness, its not a misconception, there’s a reason why he suddenly got into shape the moment he left the Bobcats

  • Spencer/SDS

    Now coupling jefferson and gordon and taking back a major salary like a boozer or amare along with some picks/young talent and simultaneously freeing up minutes for the young bigs…..that would be something i could see.

    I just don’t see how jefferson ever helps this team get better. and he def shouldn’t be playing more than 30 mpg while he is here. clifford said 30-32 at the beginning of the season and dude is steadily hitting 35+ the last few weeks. and we’re losing in the process.

    I agree, but since there are rumors that Gordon might be traded according to yahoosports, and fansided then I would rather get a 1st and big contract for him rather then give up a 1st and him for some old guy that isn’t going to be winning anything for this team, which is the most likely outcome, if we mixed in Jefferson (something I like, but know is highly unlikely:<) for an Amare and picks i'd be all over it…if Clifford actually only plays Amare the 26-30 mins he should be playing, rather then the 36 he would want to give him for whatever damned reason…Sidenote, I wouldn't be surprised if Amare came here and looked like his 1st yr with the Knicks form, dude was destroyed due to Melo and then Chandler as well…Kemba and Amare on the pick and roll would be scary

    Jefferson helps 1 thing: development, we finally have a GOOD(ish) player that the youngens can learn how to be a professional behind, Jefferson is a head smart guy that I have never heard negative revues about work ethic or off the court issues, he can be a leader…work ethic on the defensive end…or ability is a different matter, but no doubt he puts his all in when working on his offensive game lol, and maybe some of that rubs off on a Biyombo and Zeller…he could be a stop gap guy for these youngens if Cho actually keeps the young core intact (Kemba, Hendo, MKG, Taylor, Biyombo, Zeller) If all of those guys are still on this team in 2 years, this team could be extremely good, and Jefferson could be that as I said a stop-gap guy that keeps the team decent getting revenue back up somewhat, a better winning atmosphere and whatnot…how much I believe in that potential philosophy??? not much, but that could be the reasoning to the Jefferson signing…keep Jordan happy/fan base relatively happy, add a good veteran leader that can actually play and is known to be a good worker (opposite Haywood and Gordon)that helps the youngens adapt, especially in practice, where Biyombo never had a good offensive center to practice and learn by playing against everyday, or Zeller and etc.

    sidenote: Is Haywood even going to be trade bait…and does he even practice for this team lol??? Haven't heard of him or seen him since his injury.

  • charlottean

    i can’t think of an example where a young player having a mentor type guy lead to him being a star. not as a big man. and not from a teammate playing in front of him. it’s different if you have a veteran on the bench that plays sporadically behind them to “show them how it’s done”. but having a guy eat up all the minutes? those guys are developing on the bench. neither did the guys in utah. neither favors or kanter are any further along 2 years later. favors would probably be an all-star by now if he had been left in new jersey/bk to play big minutes and grow up.

    haywood is trade bait because so many bigs get hurt and he’s a 2 million dollar a year veteran who is 7 ft tall and can chew bubble gum.

    i don’t at all agree about diaw. he specifically said publicly that he was told he would be playing “a lot of 5″ and that he added weight specific to that and it was not at all against what the team asked of him. i don’t see where that added weight ever HURT his performance, but i see plenty where that weight helped his performance in playing the 4 and 5.

    his entire flaw lies in not being an alpha male. in my opinion, that isn’t a flaw. was diaw overpaid at 9 million a year? absolutely. no doubt about it. but is he worth every penny of 5? is he the ideal glue guy (way more so than mcroberts) for any team? absolutely. only in charlotte do fans hate that guy. phoenix and san antonio fans love that dude.

    15-6-5 his first season here. 11-5-4 the other 2. never missed a game. never took plays off. played both ends of the floor and transition. you put a guy in that does the exact same thing with slightly less skill, brain and efficiency……..but argues with refs and scuffles with opponents? oh they love him in charlotte.

  • charlottean

    i like the idea of a gordon for gordon swap but i can’t see new orleans being realistic enough to do it, nor would they sweeten it enough to where it would be a good deal for us. but it’s a 2 year deal – 1 if he opts out. that puts him right there with jefferson and gerald to free up a large chunk in 1.5-2.5 years. and still way under the tax next year with room to resign kemba and biz and taylor hypothetically and mkg the following.

    if they’re going to give him away, it’s a no brainer. the chances of us getting a free agent or draft pick of his caliber isn’t good. he just turned 25 in december. the issue would be the injury bug so you get them to throw in austin rivers and you have a backup to develop at the 1-2 and you already have henderson. or ant morrow for an end of the bench shooter for next year.

    not sure he would fit well with kemba, but who cares…..do everything possible to get exum or smart and slide kemba to a jason terry type role off the bench.

  • Spencer/SDS

    Well you could look at Plumlee in Phoenix currently, was given a yr to develop behind the bigs in Indiana who then let him go and is a 10-9 guy currently, but that’s just off the top of my head…but once more, it’s an assumption on my part in that this is what Cho is thinking about when getting Jefferson, just assumptions based on why he would want Jefferson this team…which are obvious: he brings in revenue, at least early on because he is a big name (to those who actually follow basketball beyond their own team), he could help in development, brings in a post presence, has leader potential…that is what I see potentially in Jefferson, thus I assume that’s why cho got him…whether it will work, meh as you pointed out people don’t just develop into all stars or starters in this league by just being on the bench (or is very uncommon).

    Gordon for Gordon..no picks thrown in??? Sounds like the Pelicans are trying to save face in that Evans, Holiday and Gordon aren’t working out together, kinda disappointed in Evans, actually wanted him here, but ya he (gordon) does two things…get a young talent with nice potential, and gets us even more likely to get into the playoffs, depends on how much they value that pick I guess…

  • charlottean

    plumlee was a late 1st rounder. we’re talking about a #4 and a #7. and indiana didn’t do that intentionally. he’s putting up an efficient 10 and 9 right now. he’s basically doing what biz would do with minutes RIGHT NOW.

    miles is also like 25, not 21. with a 4 year duke pedigree although he’s playing more now than he ever did at duke. hilarious how that works out sometimes.

    I’m betting cho was pressured to bring in a big fish and jefferson was the only real option this past summer coming off 20 wins with another new unproven coach. he HAD to spend some of the money to get to the floor, but hickson would have been a far better fit among others. i think they bought the line from jefferson and his agent that the utah time worked to help kanter and favors. and that can’t possibly be the case if they’re as bad as they are WITH hayward playing great ball, richard jefferson looking young again, trey burke being a solid pick – when healthy, alec burks emerging, etc.

    i mean favors is giving you 13.5 and 9 at age 22. and kanter is giving you 11 and 6 in 25 minutes albeit not as efficiently at age 21. they still have plenty of room to grow but biz and zeller are already 21. they’re far more ready than favors or kanter (especially) were when drafted. and biz looked poised for a breakout year with those 20 rebound games in the preseason.

    i think it has a little less to do with the individual’s game, but more to do with their ability to get to know starting opponents (as opposed to 2nd teamers they probably won’t face much in the future to be successful), to build their name up so they start getting calls sooner (super important in the nba), and learning how to play with their teammates. memphis is the best example of that. they dealt with gasol and conley and gay struggling and then you look up and their contenders (and then they hire hollinger who immediately shakes things up, fires the coach after the season, and they are now a lottery team thanks to “advanced” metrics).

    there’s just no scenario where signing jefferson helped us become contenders. unless you trade him. that’s where the value is with him, especially now while he’s healthy.

    gordon for gordon: it would make sense for new orleans to be sending picks in the salary dump as eric gordon is grossly overpaid in today’s climate. that said, there’s no way they would give up a pick AND gordon. maybe they would throw in rivers or morrow as suggested. maybe. more than likely they would want a pick coming back. that’s why the deal shouldn’t happen (unless they would take portland’s pick or jeff taylor or something). but gordon for gordon would be that swing for the fences type deal. gordon CAN BE a top 5 shooting guard. but he has MAJOR health flags and hasn’t lived up to potential this year. i think new orleans has been planning and trying to move him just about since they resigned him. they HAD to resign him because of the chris paul deal. they didn’t want to. evans was signed as the replacement, not the backup. and i think rivers was drafted with that in mind as well. i don’t think they expected him to play point guard or play immediately. we could give them the salary dump they desperately need, and they could give us the young franchise scorer that we need.

    it would be eerily similar to the richardson deal, but i put more stock in gordon as a go to player and shot creator than richardson ever was. turner would be a better fit, but i have zero faith that deal ever happens. way too obvious.

    side note: they just posted biz for the first time ever – and a travel was called. i didn’t see the travel to know if it actually was, but that was the result.